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jimbbb
Member
| Joined: | Wed Oct 17th, 2007 |
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| Posts: | 9 |
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Posted: Fri Nov 16th, 2007 20:20 |
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I just noticed a mention of LDN (Low Dose Naltrexone) therapies over on BrainTalk.com and after looking at the LDN homepage and some info there (Naltrexone blocks opiod receptors in cells) wondered how it really works.
It is said that it can rapidly reduce symptoms/inflammation etc etc. (although they also show evidence of healing in Crohn's Disease).
Is this just another method of suppressing the immune system so you feel better fast?
I thought this would be a good place to discuss this a bit and thus educate our members for when they go forth and do battle on other forums.
thanks
jim
Last edited on Sat Nov 17th, 2007 22:03 by jimbbb
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
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Posted: Fri Nov 16th, 2007 21:21 |
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You suppress inflammation by suppressing the immune system This is not a good thing, as the bacteria continue to multiply.
Opioid receptors are present on T-cells, although they seem to be part of the adaptive immune system, and not part of the innate. Still, after the innate system loses control there is a cascade of activation which flows through the adaptive system and fuels the widespread inflammation of Th1 disease.
Has anybody used LDN that can tell us what they found? Particularly, how much better Benicar turned out to be?
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Julia
Advocate (on leave)
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Posted: Fri Nov 16th, 2007 21:33 |
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Hi Jim,
On the MP site, if you put 'naltrexone' into google and click 'search this site', you'll find it has been discussed. Here are some of the results:
Anything that significantly alters the delicate balance of the MP is not recommended during the MP. You can read about naltrexone in this filelink.
"naltrexone, in a low dose, can boost the immune system." please see Dr Marshall below and Safety Warning.
Dr Marshall wrote:
Generally, anything you add to the MP tends to stop it killing the pathogens. There is a very delicate balance which an MP patient sets up, a balance between the rate of killing the pathogens and the level of herxheimer which the patient can handle. <<
Meg Mangin responded to a similar question earlier:
Any medication that interferes with the body's attempts to restore natural hormonal balance is to be avoided.
Julia 
____________________
Always consult a physician
Essential Info; FAQ; Julia's story
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ginariggio
Member
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Posted: Fri Feb 1st, 2008 02:26 |
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I have a copy of the Phase I clinical trial publication for Low Dose Naltrexone treating crohn's disease if you want it. That way you can read about its mechanism of action. They are doing Phase II right now, at Hershey Medical Center in Pennsylvania. (No, they don't make chocolate there, although that would be pretty sweet if they did.) Anyway, send me a private message or an email if you want a copy of the study.
-Gina
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"All happiness comes from thoughts of others." - Buddha
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
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Posted: Fri Feb 1st, 2008 05:36 |
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ginariggio wrote: That way you can read about its mechanism of action
Gina,
Actually, all we can read about is the mechanism of action which others have presumed to be dominant.
For example, with the statins, it is almost certain now that their primary effects are on receptors other than what the FDA was told, and what is commonly believed (see my Lancet letter, for more info).
And just this week a group found that Celebrex, presumed to be a COX-2 inhibitor, had profound effects in the fruit-fly, which doesn't even have a COX-2 enzyme.
If anybody wants to be a guinea pig for any potential palliative actions of LXN it would be best to wait until they are in phase 2, and well along the road to recovery. The opioid and cannabinoid receptors are expressed on cells of the immune system, and have a role to play in its proper function.
..trevor..
ps: Note that I have looked into the opiod and cannabinoid receptors in some depth, you will find that I included the cannabionoids in my FDA presentation back in early 2006.
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ginariggio
Member
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Posted: Fri Feb 1st, 2008 14:49 |
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Have you done any papers on those receptors and LDN? I'd be curious to read those, too. Just being an information sponge as usual.
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"All happiness comes from thoughts of others." - Buddha
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
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Posted: Fri Feb 1st, 2008 15:46 |
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Gina,
I have just been too busy the last 6 months (or so) to do any more molecular computing. One of the problems is that there are many receptors potentially involved, I have over a dozen which I screen, and I don't have an automated way of doing that yet. Each one takes about 4-8 computing-hours. I guess I need to take the time to set some automation up, but these days time is being taken away by so many things I have to do  I really need to get some helpful post-docs, and a lab, and maybe we will be able to revisit the LDN issue at that time
..Trevor..
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Jeannine R.N.
Research Staff
| Joined: | Wed Oct 17th, 2007 |
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Posted: Sat Feb 2nd, 2008 02:36 |
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I know a member who tried LDN with no success infact it made things worse for him. The person stopped the MP to try LDN. So again LDN is just a dead end. It messes with the immune system somehow and I dont think in a good way. There are many other pallative meds. I wouldn't waste my time on LDN. However, in the years to come it will be interesting to see how specifically, through molecular modeling, different medications affect the immune system.
Jeannine
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CFS FM Lyme Morgellons| pain fatigue depression flulike joint pain| 2/06 1,25D-49 25D-11 9/06 25D-11 2/07 25D-?| prozac20mgqd| MPstart 7/14/06 Beni40Q6 Ph1 8/06| Mod Ph2 5/07| Ph2 date|
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ginariggio
Member
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Posted: Sat Feb 2nd, 2008 06:01 |
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I think LDN is interesting, just because of what it exposes about receptors. Shows we have a lot more to learn. I have a hard time udnerstanding exactly how it works. I'm having an immunology prof at my school here help me figure out whether or not these people at Hershey think it boosts immunity or hinders it. I guess it doesn't matter, if it affects immune function at all it has the ability to hinder the healing process on the MP. My GI doctor tried LDN on one of his UC patients and she didn't have much success either. So i guess its hit or miss. I know when i went on opiate-like painkillers for a kidney stone, my GI symptoms went away completely. The data from the Hershey studies seems pretty strong as far as its ability to suppress Crohn's symptoms, but its definitely not a cure. I looked into LDN because I was just looking for non-carcinogenic, "friendlier" options for weaning from prednisone. Instead, i decided to use Benicar and various topical, non-steroidal antiinflammatory tricks to stay stable while i go off the steroids.
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"All happiness comes from thoughts of others." - Buddha
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