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markt9452
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Posted: Fri Dec 28th, 2007 21:51 |
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When I first posted my 125d results for comment at the marshall protocol forum I wrote that I hadn't been taking any supplements - and I hadn't...at least not that I knew of. It turns out that the hemp oil I have been using for cooking for a few months prior to being tested is full of the stuff. Anyways I am suddenly not sure if I am manifesting TH1 or Vitamonisis D. or both? How do you know if you just have too much vitamin D in your body or if there is a TH1 infection? The symptoms seem pretty much the same other than the granulomas and sometimes TH1 patients don't have them. Maybe If I hadn't had TH1 inflamation I would have metabolized the hemp oil properly? I have to see my doctor again on the 14th of Jan and I want to make sure I have as much info as possible because she is hesitant to make a diagnosis of sarcoidosis ( because I don't have any lung problems) and I don't want to give her any reason to doubt the diagnosis of TH1 if it is appropriate. The lesions on my shins/thigh and eyelids were my big clue in discovering TH1 and the marshall protocol...I am fairly certain this is a symptom of TH1 and not vitaminosis but I am not a medical professional.
Thanks Mark
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GeorgeinRollaMO
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Posted: Fri Dec 28th, 2007 23:18 |
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Mark,
I am not a licensed medical professional so can not give you any medical diagnosis. I can only give you what I have learned on the MP 'study' forum.
If you did not have a Th1 inflammation problem, you would not have vitaminosis-D problems. The body will tightly regulate the D's, 125D hormone and 25D, within your body.
Once in your body, pleomorphic bacteria L-forms migrate to your macrophages of your immune system. This is the preferred form that the bacteria like to live in, not the CW (cell wall) form that the med docs are so use to seeing and dealing with (they think). These L-forms cause the suppression of your VDR's, which control your innate immune system. The L-forms are then able to proliferate, and cause further dysregulation of the 125D hormone system. This 125D hormone is at the center of control of ALL other hormones. Hence, one will have many and varied symptoms.
Remember, it is a soup or stew of pleomorphic bacterial L-forms, from many sources and varieties, that cause a soup or stew of symptoms. It is not one bacterium causing sarcodoisis, or any other singularly bacterium causing a singularly named malady. The cause of many such named maladies all have the one cause.... Th1 inflammation.
While Dr. Marshall, Phd, developed the pathogenesis (cause) and protocol (treatment) for the malady that the medical community gave the name of 'sarcodiosis' to a set of symptoms, of which drove him, he realized that 'sarcodiosis' was just one set of symptoms which could vary much from one individual to another individual, from one med doc to another med doc. And, the trugh of the matter is that 'sarc' is just one named set of symptoms of the Th1 inflammation.
You might look at my post to Micheleb for a simplication of what this is about.
The 'proof of the pudding' is in the number of successes that the MP protocol brings about. See... http://www.bacteriality.com and look at the links for Interviews in the right-hand column. Also, read the link The Truth About Vitamin D.... that is also at that site.
Wishing you, and all, wellness!!! 
Dark Vader...aka, George
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Borreliosis (but really Th1 inflammation). Start D values, July '04, 125D/57, 25D/61...over supplementation with D (fish oil).
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markt9452
Member
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Posted: Sat Dec 29th, 2007 01:59 |
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Thanks George - Appreciate the response.
I am wondering if there is a difference in symptoms between sarc and straight up ..."I took to many vitamin d supplements". If a patient supplemented so much vitamin d that it made them toxic they wouldn't necessarily have TH1 but they would show many of the same symptoms of TH1 or sarc - so how do you know if youve just been poisened by vitamin d supplements or if you really have the L-form bacterial infection. It seems as if your saying that if a person did not have TH1 inflammation they would be able to deal with the excess vitamin d in their diet? Is this true? Also I'm wondering if a person suffering from my hypothetical vitamin d poisoning (as a result of diet) would show high 25D or high 125D as opposed to the typical L-form infection that has low 25D and high 125D? My question may be completey irrellivent but I want to make sure I understand this. Maybe this is one of those chicken/egg stories..what came first the Vitamin D or the L-form bacteria? It seems as if you are saying the bacteria came first and this was only made worse by any additional vitamin d in the diet? Maybe it's different for each person? My whole life I have always thought that something bad happened to me when I was a child and received those ear drainage tube thingies. If these L-forms are what is causing the damage I believe this is how I got mine. On the other hand - maybe it was the vitamin d in the milk that was contributing to the ear infections before the tubes were put in? I remember waking up one morning a few years later - I guess I was about 12 - and the room was just spinning around!! - I really havent been the same since...unfortunately that was 28 years ago! Is it possible that some people just can't tolerate extra dietary vitamin d and this in turn creates a situation where the L=forms have increased access to the immune system? Logic is telling me that these L-forms are all over the place and it is the immune response to excess amounts of dietary vitamin D that opens the door to sustained infection. I hope I'm wrong about this because that would mean that billions of people are destroying their immune systems by eating and drinking fortified food. I am going to guess that the people putting the sheep-grease in the food also own the drug companies? (If this is to political-please delete) Thanks again for the reply!! Mark
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GeorgeinRollaMO
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Posted: Sat Dec 29th, 2007 04:24 |
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Mark,
You ask sooo many questions in one post.... please bear with me if I don't get them all answered.
To be very honest and candid with you, the only person who really knows the answer in a most definite way is God.
However, as best as humans can discern the answers for your questions....
If one did not have the Th1 inflammation, one's bodily systems would regulate his 125D hormone and 25D to a normal value.
So, the answer to your second question is 'TRUE'.
I had D-tests results of high 125D (57) and high 25D (61) because of my supplementing {with as much as 16,000 units of D from fish oil every day and other sources}, so there is no typical D scores with Th1 inflammation. And is why the Staff interprets the scores using the information provided.
The pleomorphic bacterial infection comes before a dysregulation of the 125D.
The addition of vitamin D suppresses the immune system by disrupting the normal processes of the VDR.
It is the same for each person. However, the sets of symptoms may be different for different people. These different sets of symptoms are given different names by the medical community, but ALL come from the ONE cause... Th1 inflammation as described by Dr. Trevor G. Marshall, Phd. Don't get tooooo hungup on having sarcoidosis. It is Th1 inflammation that you have that is your underlying problem.
The problem of drinking milk fortified with D was contributing to your ear problem by suppressing your immune system and allowing the bacteria to proliferate. {I wish that I could tell that to my daughter for my grandson, too, for his ear infections. She won't listen; she prefers to pay attention to what her med docs say. Cest La Vie!]
You may have inherited the L-forms from your parents, or been in the same enviroment as they. You may have picked them up from even your food supply. {I had two of my So. Am. llamas tested that showed that they were positive for one variety of pleomorphic bacteria. If they can be infected, then why not cattle? Have you loved that steak or hamburger?} The milk may have even contributed to your problem with pleomorphic bacteria L-forms, in addition to helping to suppress your immune system with the steroidal non-'vitamin' D in fortied milk.
The L-forms create the Th1 inflammation which create the dysregulation of D's problem. Taking more D in food and drink and supplements only compounds the problem.
L-forms are all over the place!!!!!!  One variety has been found in dirt. Another variety has been found on the feet of armadillos. One variety has been found in houses of ill-repute. One variety has been found in crowded places inhabited by humans.
However, once established in the immune system, it is rather improbable that just removing dietery vitamin D will clear the problem within the immune system. The VDR is clogged up with products that keep it from producing the necessary products for the immune system to do its job. A jump-start is needed to do this clearing, and the Benicar and selected antibiotics of the MP does this jump-starting.
I agree with you whole-heartedly that BILLIONS of people are being 'poisoned' with the steroid, non-'vitamin' D, and that is reaping tons upon tons of money for too many people to get the system changed overnight. A certain 'eduated' man from your Province is the lead point man at the present time doing this diversion about the truth about D.
Mark, IMHO, you are not ready to take on your medical doctor at this time with knowledge that you need to convert her to MP thinking!!!! It is a BIG job! It sure sounds as though you need more reading and studying the MP 'study' site. And don't forget the bacteriality.com site for some easy to read information that can help direct your studing.
Now, I have a question for you.  Have you read both Essential Information about the MP and Marshall Protocol FAQs Both are required reading!!!
The best way to really tell if you have a Th1 inflammation is to do a Therapeutic Probe. And the answer to "What is that?" is something that I will allow you to research, and give me the answer. I will give you a clue... a path to the answer is in that second required reading.
Wishing you, and all, wellness!!!
Dark Vader...aka, George
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Borreliosis (but really Th1 inflammation). Start D values, July '04, 125D/57, 25D/61...over supplementation with D (fish oil).
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markt9452
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Posted: Sat Dec 29th, 2007 06:17 |
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Thanks George that was very well written and I appreciate the time you must have taken to write that. You have answered all my questions and I do understand things better now. I have been reading for a while now. All the VDR stuff is still hard to understand but I know it will sink in. Your right I'm not ready for the doctor yet...not only is she way more educated than I am but I get the brain fog thing everytime I find myself under flourescent lights in the Dr's office trying to explain this.
I did read about the Therapeutic probe. I couldn't convince Doc to try it with Benicar but since I stopped vitamin D a couple of months ago(I am trying but there seems to be D in everything here in Canada even the organic stuff) ... I do feel worse starting about three weeks after stopping the D and I now have constant headaches and am very tired among other things which doesn't surprise me at all as the MP has been a pretty reliable guide so far about such things.
re. the Vitamin D guy from Ontario. Yes I discovered this earlier tonight while researching. I am going to look into this further. I have discovered what I believe are some disturbing relationships between Organizations that advocate nutritional supplements and those Organizations that profit from the sale of the same supplements. I have allready written the Canadian Cancer Society about their recommendation of vitamin D supplementation that is on their website and if there are other organizations here in Canada that are involved in poisoning the general public with vitamin D they will be hearing from me also.
Thanks again George - I'll keep reading. Mark
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GeorgeinRollaMO
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Posted: Sat Dec 29th, 2007 19:37 |
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Mark,
One BIG ATTA BOY!!!!! for you!!!
Yes! It does take awhile to have all of this new way of medical thinking sink in. It does require lots of reading. I took two and a half months to study, reading some everyday, and some got read repeatedly, before I figured that I was ready to start. And it still takes lots of reading even after one starts, if one really wants to learn the material. Some folks can do the MP protocol as they would do a cookbook, which is OK, too. I happen to like to know more of the 'how, when and why'. IMO, most of the present folks doing the MP are of the pioneering spirit, and think as I do.
The MP 'study' forum is a living entity! It is not static! More is learned almost every day, it seems. Eg, in the beginning the emphasis was on the 125D hormone. While that is still important, the emphasis has shifted to enabling the VDR, and that 25D disables the VDR in doing what it needs to do.
Good to hear that you are of the 'let's get this bad stuff corrected' makeup!!!
Wishing you, and all, wellness!!!
Dark Vader...aka, George
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Borreliosis (but really Th1 inflammation). Start D values, July '04, 125D/57, 25D/61...over supplementation with D (fish oil).
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markt9452
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Posted: Sat Dec 29th, 2007 23:02 |
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George not only am I of the " .. 'let's get this bad stuff corrected' makeup!!!.." I have been active for many years now in various environmental issues. If there are conflict of interest relationships surrounding the issue of dietary vit D enhancement and the medical establishment I will write every newspaper in the Country about it.
I just read a really interesting letter from INFACT (Infant Feeding Action Coalition). The letter is addressed to Health Minister Ujjal Dosanjh. The letter asks the minister to reconsider health canada recommendations of 400IU of 25d for infants http://www.infactcanada.ca/Action_Alert_Vitamin_D.htm
Summary
"The primary beneficiaries of this policy will not be Canada’s infants, but the very same industry that violates Canada’s Food and Drugs regulations and Industry Canada’s Competition Act with misleading labelling and claims and violates the World Health Organization’s rules on the marketing of infant formulas."
Question - Does anyone know who is manufacturing these D products and Where they are made in north America?
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Violet
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Posted: Mon Dec 31st, 2007 14:18 |
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One of the big pushers of Vit D in the USA is Joe Mercola. Maybe you have heard of him; he has a big website about alternative remedies. I still get his automatic emails, and last week he sent out one about Vit D. He pushes it every winter. I wanted to write him a letter explaining what Dr. Marshall has found, but didn't have the mental energy or ability to explain it in a way that would make him think twice, if that's at all possible. I'm sure many people just look the other way when you tell them what Vit D supplementation really does. You sound as if you are good at explaining things like this, so maybe if you have the energy you could write him a letter.
Thanks,
Violet
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Julia
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Posted: Mon Dec 31st, 2007 15:00 |
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Hi Violet, and welcome!
Dr Mercola knows very well what Dr Marshall has found, but chooses to continue his recommendations to increase vit D. He accepts that this doesn't apply to sarcoidosis patients, but doesn't accept any connection between vit D and other chronic diseases
Julia 
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markt9452
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Posted: Mon Dec 31st, 2007 19:17 |
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That's pretty much what I'm finding with the Vit D advocates. They are willing to admit there is some negative affect for sarc. On the other hand it doesn't seem to stop them from mandating the addition of D to my food without the appropriate labelling. This society has no problem sacrificing the few if it believes it benefits the many. I think a lot of people see this as some kind of natural selection process. If they understood the VDR they would realize that they are poisoning themselves and their families. Now that I understand this a bit better I can see Th1 inflammation in my whole family. My mom and sisters both have thyroid disfunction and my son has a throat clearing thing he does that resembles a tick. It's not though - it's Th1 inflammation. He is only eight years old and i can see the same bags under his eyes and swollen eyelids that I have. He was born three months premature because his mother was suffering from eclampsyia which is another syndrome that appears to be Th1. That's pretty good motivation for me to take the effort to understand this so that I can explain it to people. I think the newspapers are the way to go so that is where I am going to start.
Happy New Years!!
Mark
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Rico
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Posted: Mon Dec 31st, 2007 20:06 |
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You seem to pick up on these things pretty quickly, Mark. I've had throat clearing (along with other tics)) since I was a teen and I'm in my 40's. I know it's Th1 disease as I've seen my tics vanish, at least temporarily. Happy new year and wishing you all the success with the papers!
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markt9452
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Posted: Mon Dec 31st, 2007 20:33 |
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| Thanks for the confirmation on the throat clearing Rico. Even more thanks for confirming that the problem is fixable.
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Violet
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Posted: Mon Dec 31st, 2007 22:32 |
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That's very sad about Joe Mercola. People do tend to shut their minds to what they don't want to hear. Also, have you ever thought about calcification of the brain? I am wondering if that can affect the thinking and reasoning processes.
Mark, have you ever heard of the website called News Target? It has a large following, and they send out articles by email. Several months ago they were looking for people to write articles for them. Letting the people who are interested in supplements know about the harmfulness of supplementing with Vit D would be very helpful.
Violet
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markt9452
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Posted: Tue Jan 1st, 2008 00:15 |
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Thanks Violet - That's a good idea. I don't know if I can do it or not but I can try. If you think I have what it takes to write such articles than I must consider doing so. It certainly needs to be done. I still haven't convinced my doctor yet so I'm not sure about my track record but that just makes me learn more about this. I just finished writing my sister a letter that is a very personnel explanation about my how I believe Th1 and Vitamin D. are affecting myself and other members of my family. It is written to a person that has no idea about my illness or TH1. I am considering sending to the newpaper. I may post it here for comment first if anyone thinks that is good idea. I'll have to talk to them to first.
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Knochen
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Posted: Tue Jan 1st, 2008 02:39 |
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Hi Mark,
You may find the best thing to do is get yourself well before you attempt to save the world. Trust me, you'll need all your energies to heal.
I'm all for getting the rest of the world on board, but my personal take is that we have some good scientific minds at work on it right now, and well meaning, but only partially informed advocates may do more harm than good. You know you will get a LOT of argument if you post on boards that support suppliments, and if you are unable to answer any and all questions, the already biased minds will just write you off (and write off the MP!). As painful as it is, I think people are going to have to find us "the hard way", that is, when they have run out of options. But don't worry, Dr. Marshall and crew are working very hard to get the word out among the medical and scientific community, so the day will come when the MP is common knowledge. But it will take time.
Your job right now is to get well. Keep that as a priority and don't try to evangelize too much. We've all tried it and generally found it to be unrewarding. Far better to be a good example of what the MP can do; people will eventually come around. It's painful to watch all the Th1 that's around and not say anything, but you have to pick your fights. You have enough of a fight on your hands getting rid of your own Th1, trust me. Hopefully, by the time you are finished with your own bugs, you'll be enough of an expert to take on the rest of the world! In the meantime, get your doc on board. That's the best audience to convince.
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I can help you understand the recovery process, but only your physician is licensed to give you medical care.
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GeorgeinRollaMO
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Posted: Tue Jan 1st, 2008 06:02 |
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Hi, Mark,
Knochen said it ALL so eloquently!!!!!!!!!!
Wishing you, and all, wellness!!!
Dark Vader...aka, George
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Borreliosis (but really Th1 inflammation). Start D values, July '04, 125D/57, 25D/61...over supplementation with D (fish oil).
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markt9452
Member
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Posted: Tue Jan 1st, 2008 07:14 |
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Your right Knochen. I think trying to save the world might be one of my symptoms actually. I will make an effort to restrain myself and make sure that my approach in regards to informing others is measured and well reasoned.
I have heard much about the profound consequences of environmental issues like pesticides, the ozone layer and mass extinction as a result of monoculture farming. I hadn't heard about the Vitamin D until a couple of months ago after I associated my symptoms with vitamin D toxicity.
Thanks for all your thoughts
Mark
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markt9452
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Posted: Wed Jan 2nd, 2008 22:39 |
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I have another question I hope someone can answer.
I'm going to see my doctor again and talk to her about my recent D metabolite tests and biopsy. She is a skeptic. I just know she is going to say something like "...look Mark ...the biopsy of the lesion on your shin came back from the lab and it says that under microscopic examination the result is Dermatofibroma...it's not granuloma... see! ...I told you nothing is wrong with you..." ...."So come over here and let me give you that good old vitamin D injection I was telling you about!!"
Yikes!! (don't worry I can still run pretty good...)
The question is what is Dermatofibroma in the context of Th1 inflammation? I think the answer is fairly obvious. The dermatofibroma is a result of the Th1 inflammatory process and if you look at the biopsy using the correct methods for observing L-forms you will see them.
On the other hand I researched Dermatofibroma and didn't come up with much? It seems like one of those "catch all phrases"...??
I want to be sure about what I am talking about because she is pretty hard core and if I dare her to whip out that darkfield microscope and check for herself she just might do it!!
Thanks - Really appreciate the great people here!! Mark
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markt9452
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Posted: Thu Jan 3rd, 2008 17:28 |
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I am going to bump this question just in case anyone missed it.
Mark
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Julia
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Posted: Thu Jan 3rd, 2008 23:00 |
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Mark,
Thanks for bumping - we're all volunteers and busy people, so sometimes you have to be patient!
The question is what is Dermatofibroma in the context of Th1 inflammation? I think the answer is fairly obvious. The dermatofibroma is a result of the Th1 inflammatory process and if you look at the biopsy using the correct methods for observing L-forms you will see them.
I think you have answered your own question, except that a punch biopsy isn't going to be tested for CWD bacteria. The procedures to find and culture CWD bacteria are usually done only in a research lab. Because they're so difficult to culture, some doctors even doubt their existence. Please see:
CELL WALL DEFICIENT BACTERIA AND THE MARSHALL PROTOCOL.
Why can't CWD bacteria be detected with tests?
The results of your D-metabolites tests confirmed Th1 inflammation. Now it's up to you to find a doctor who's open-minded enough to prescribe what you know you need . Most of us have found our own GPs to be more open to new ideas than the specialists.
Julia
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