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Furch
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Posted: Wed Nov 19th, 2008 09:29 |
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Hello, im new here, and ill just start with a quick introduction of myself:
im 25 years old, male, student, from norway, got diagnosed with MS two years ago. I never touched the standard ABC meds but instead applied a diet-approach to manage symptoms. Also last year i started LDN(low dose naltrexone), which is like benicar, not intended for MS, but have a certain effect, and minimal side-effects(dont think its immunosuppressive) which i will discontinue when starting the MP.
I have not had any severe impairment from the illness, i still mostly live as i used to, though the backpain and psychological paranoia for the future is driving me nuts, so im really glad i found the MP now, and not in 5 years or so.. I also have problems with weight loss, since i dont absorb nutrients like i should, and some annoying clicking and pain in my joints.
ive been reading alot about the MP, im nearly posessed by reading about it, im really supposed to study for the exams. It all just make so much sense, and the criticism ive read never managed to convince me otherwise.
I've already found an excellent doctor to take me through the MP, and he seemed very interested in it, im real glad i dont have to go through the doctor-presuation-limbo..
well, to my question(s)
1. The immunopathology ive read is quite tough for some, but im wondering, when you get the immunopathology, does this cause damage to nerve tissue as it does when one has a MS-attack or excerbation?
If this process is just bacteria dying and the effect of this, nothing more, the handling of the immunopathology-symptoms wont be so bad. But im thinking if i know that symptoms means possible permanent damage i'd get pretty scared..
2. I measured my vitamin D-25 levels two months ago, it said too low, this was before i was mindjacked by the MP, so i ate a lot of D-supplement. Im wondering, should i wait until my D-25 is stable around 20 befor i start the MP??
im real anxious to get startet so i hope there's a way to lower the d-levels fast, would antagonists be something worth using? a familymember has a lot of knowledge about vitamins and such, and tells me that A, sinc and magnesium is d-antagonists. I know youre not supposed to take supplements on the MP, but im thinking before i start it..
3. Lastly, i'd like to be on the wait-list for the study, i have the impression there are few people with MS that participates in the study, am i wrong? how do i get on the wait-list?
Thank you all for you're work with this site and you're commitment 
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natalie17
Advocate
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Posted: Wed Nov 19th, 2008 11:50 |
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Hi Furch,
Welcome  . Although I was diagnosed with CFS, I am also gald I found the MP early.
im really supposed to study for the exams. - Made me laugh! Great to hear you're doing so much reading.
1. The immunopathology ive read is quite tough for some, but im wondering, when you get the immunopathology, does this cause damage to nerve tissue as it does when one has a MS-attack or excerbation? ..... if i know that symptoms means possible permanent damage i'd get pretty scared..
Tough for some, yes, and easier for others. To my knowledge, considering the MP is a curative treatment, it would not further damage nerve tissue, in fact I imagine there's a good chance it would reverse it. Rest assured I will be quickly corrected if wrong.
If you have not yet seen it - MS MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS and Th1 inflammation.
2. I measured my vitamin D-25 levels two months ago, it said too low, this was before i was mindjacked by the MP, so i ate a lot of D-supplement. Im wondering, should i wait until my D-25 is stable around 20 befor i start the MP??
No need to wait until your 25-D drops. Plenty of people who start the MP had a 25-D reading above 20ng/ml, and it slowly drops as they progress.
When/if you have your D-METABOLITES TESTS done, you can get an experienced opinion on what they mean here, in;
Help with Understanding D-metabolite tests
would antagonists be something worth using? a familymember has a lot of knowledge about vitamins and such, and tells me that A, sinc and magnesium is d-antagonists. I know youre not supposed to take supplements on the MP, but im thinking before i start it..
No need at all. Can't imagine anyone here reccommending it either.
3. Lastly, i'd like to be on the wait-list for the study, i have the impression there are few people with MS that participates in the study, am i wrong? how do i get on the wait-list?
This topic is currently being discussed by the foundation's board members and we'll try to keep you posted. There are a few people on the study site with MS, yes.
You can read some of their success stories in Members' Success Stories.
(Also, the whole of Amy Proal's http://www.bacteriality.com is fantastic if you haven't yet discovered it).
Hope this helps and let us know if you have any more questions.
Best,
Natalie
____________________
I can help you understand the recovery process, but only your physician is licensed to give you medical care.| ABCofMP|My Story
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Furch
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Posted: Wed Nov 19th, 2008 12:48 |
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Thankyou for fast reply
yes ive spent alot of time reading on amy proal's site, good reading
i cant seem to access the success stories-link.. isnt parts of the marshallprotocol.com only for members of the study?
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
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Posted: Wed Nov 19th, 2008 14:28 |
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Please try to access that thread again Furch.
Parts of the MP study site are kept private for those who are members of the study cohort Many of these members also post their main progress reports in the Phase 1 Alumni section, which is open to all:
http://www.marshallprotocol.com/forum30/
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Furch
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Posted: Wed Nov 19th, 2008 21:41 |
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excellent, that one worked
Im astounded by the success-rate of the MP(in the success-stories link)
Ever since my diagnosis i have completely ignored common treatments for MS, and very much into diet approach as i mentioned. I see now with the data the MP provides how this can function in the same way as immunosuppressants and such, lots of D, lots of anti inflammatory, but in the long run doesnt cure the disease.
Im real glad i took the time to actually read more than just the main outlines of the MP, as i probably would have winded up with "concluding" its one of those "cures" based on pure speculation, which is clearly not the case. i have a deep respect for you're ability and will to promote this treatment. And the open source approach is just brilliant, exaclty what modern medicine needs.
All this makes me want to somehow spread the word, but i assume its not just to say: "hey, check out the marshall protocol, it rulz" and most people dont have the patience to dive into the whole human biology research(which im only barely beginning to grasp). I thought i had a question regarding this, but i recall reading a
post saying the best one can do for the cause is getting well
But, i have alittle question regarding the l-form bacts. Couldnt a wet cellar-appartment infested with rot and funghi, be a plausible arena for contracting different l-form bacteria?(i lived in a real rats-nest of that caliber during my first signs of illness, due to low rent:\)
And is my girlfriend likely to have l-form bacteria passed on from me?
also, is there any collection of links for all the studies used for the research in MP?
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ErikMoldWarrior
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Posted: Thu Nov 20th, 2008 00:45 |
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Hi Furch. (And Prof Marshall).
I'm interested in your question about the possibility of a water-damaged and fungi-infested apartment being a plausible arena for acquisition of L forms, and suspicion that this was a contributing component at the beginning of your illness.
Mold was a major factor in the onset of my illness (CFS), so when a "mold clue" like yours pops up, it grabs my attention.
I have a friend who has MS, and is looking for a way out, so I'm trying to educate myself about the MP so perhaps I can talk her into it.
-Erik
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
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Posted: Thu Nov 20th, 2008 01:41 |
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Erik,
This is not a forum for you to promote your theory that mold caused your CFS. You know that theory has been held to be controversial in other forums, including MMI, and I will not have such discussions here.
Here we know how to reverse and cure CFS, and it doesn't involve mold in any way, shape or form.
It is my experience that it is just not possible to identify when the key pathogens were incorporated in the metagenomic microbiota which is currently causing the Th1 disease (either CFS or MS). There are just too many variables, it is an imponderable puzzle with too many statistical degrees of freedom compared to the available data points.
The microbiota is already present at birth. It accumulates during the whole life span. By the time you are aware of a sensitivity to anything, it is too late, your perception is already being compromised by the accumulated metagenome.
Certainly living in a compromised condition, including one where molds might typically be present, is unlikely to do anything except burden the immune system even more. There may well be a relationship. Guss Wilkinson has noted that he was in a similar dingy living situation in Sweden before his Sarcoidosis finally flared. You can now read that Guss is back living a full life at this URL:
http://bacteriality.com/2007/08/10/interview1/
..trevor..
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ErikMoldWarrior
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Posted: Thu Nov 20th, 2008 02:42 |
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Prof Marshall, I'm not trying to sell "frog-eye extract" in your forum.
I'm just here to learn.
Your rules are very clear.
Nor would I wish to interfere in any way with Furch's treatment.
--- irrelevant stuff EDITED OUT BY TM ---
--- Indeed the rules are clear, Erik. And next time you break them you will be banned ---
Regards.
-Erik
Last edited on Thu Nov 20th, 2008 02:58 by
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Furch
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Posted: Fri Nov 21st, 2008 16:08 |
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Is it ok to take frog eye extract while on MP? i dont see it on the forbidden supplements list, (LOL)
sry just kidding
excellent presentations on vimeo.com-site
i read this on wikipeda and this exerpt seems to perfectly fit into the MP-model:
"The amoebae behave in the sea just like the immune cells in human body: they search for and feed on the bacteria. When bacteria are alone and separated in the water, they become an easy catch for the attackers. However, when they attach to a surface and join other bacteria, the amoebae cannot assault them.
The researcher stated that biofilms may be seen as a source of new bioactive agents. When bacteria are organized in biofilms, they produce effective substances which individual bacteria are unable to produce alone."
How do you see the medical community catching on to this? no one in the right mind who understands this, can refute the MP's ovbious solution to years and years of imponderable puzzle-work?
also i'd just like to make sure i dont cross any lines regarding forum rules(like the mold-issue); are thoughts like in this post too much off topic?
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Furch
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Posted: Fri Nov 21st, 2008 20:09 |
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So I had no intention of proposing that my personal "therapy" should be discussed by this group, and only wished to convey to you that I have a personal interest in the illness-association that you mentioned.
i totally understand,its only natural when one gets sick, im myself very contemplative about anything in my life-history that could have contributed to my illness
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
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Posted: Fri Nov 21st, 2008 20:19 |
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I was at the ASM "Beneficial Microbes" conference a few weeks ago, and a researcher from Max Planck Institute showed slides of the phagocytes from a worm living on coral reefs near Bermuda. She was marveling that a intraphagocytic metagenomic microbiota was present in those phagocytes.
After her session I had a chat with her, and told her that a similar microbiota had been seen in human phagocytes. She was not surprised, she had assumed that such a symbiosis might be present in all Eukaryotes, and not just the worms she was studying.
However, I doubt that many in the medical community would be as easy-going as she was on this issue. Medicine has held the sterility of the human body as sacrosanct, and it will take them some time to change that position, I feel. Meanwhile, Microbiologists are continuing to lay down the foundations of the metagenomic science upon which the future of mankind rests.
This is a strange dichotomy, is it not?
---------------
ps: The moderators will exercise extreme discretion in figuring whether a discussion is appropriate or not. Our primary concern is whether a discussion advances an individual's, or the community's, likelihood of recovery. Mold is not in any way relevant to the causative agent of Th1 chronic disease, even though sensitivity to mold is a result of the Th1 disease process. It is counterproductive to allow that issue to take up our time. We know how to cure chronic disease, and we focus on communicating and refining that knowledge.
Last edited on Fri Nov 21st, 2008 20:23 by Dr Trevor Marshall
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Furch
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Posted: Fri Nov 21st, 2008 21:52 |
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It sure is a strange dichtonomy, or even a "threechtonomy" if one counts the alternative movement as third
The MP has me inspired to consider changing course in my studies, have been looking into bioinformatics as a way to combine what i already studied, with biology.
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ErikMoldWarrior
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Posted: Fri Nov 21st, 2008 22:09 |
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I wonder if the intraphagocytic microbiota of the coral worms is similar enough that they could serve as an effective test model for VDR modulation of biofilm production?
-Erik
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
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Posted: Sat Nov 22nd, 2008 01:11 |
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Nope. Man's VDR is differently evolved from animals and lower Eukaryotes.
In any case the VDR doesn't modulate biofilm production
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ErikMoldWarrior
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Posted: Sat Nov 22nd, 2008 01:23 |
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Sorry, I was under the impression that the VDR activation blockage modulated expression of catheliciden and defensins, which control the ability of the microbiota to parasitize the lymphocytes and produce those biofilms,
so it wouldn't be wildly out of line to say "shorthand" that the VDR was modulating the biofilms, but I probably misunderstood.
At any rate, are there videos showing human post MP reduction in biofilm production?
Wouldn't that be sufficiently compelling that no one could ignore it?
-Erik
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Furch
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Posted: Sat Nov 22nd, 2008 19:29 |
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I used to be beridden with cluster headaches(diagnosed too), from the age of 17- just after having mononucleosis. Fortunately I havent been having any CH since i stopped eating gluten and dairy(2,5 years now), but I wonder if anyone have any thoughts on whether th1-infection play a role in these headaches og migranes in general?
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
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Posted: Sat Nov 22nd, 2008 20:33 |
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Migraine and cluster headaches are common in Th1 patients, and they often disappear quite quickly after commencement of MP therapy.
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Furch
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Posted: Sun Nov 23rd, 2008 01:00 |
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Hi, thanks trevor
i just recieved an email from my doc, who said he had discussed the protocol with three other docs who had experience with the protocol in treating lyme disease. They had dicontinued the treatment because of mineral deficiency in the first phase.
personally im not as concerned by my mineral-levels as i am about having my nevrous-system messed up by bugs... :\
any thoughts on this? how do i reassure him?
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
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Posted: Sun Nov 23rd, 2008 01:20 |
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Hi,
I wonder why your Doc didn't think to write and ask me about his concerns?
Yes, the LLMDs, as a group, are having trouble understanding the science behind the protocol, and they are certainly having trouble understanding how sick their patients really are, and that Borrelia is really not the cause of their primary illness.
For example, the LLMD who cared for this member:
http://bacteriality.com/2007/09/22/interview3/
does not understand why Susan recovered, and several of her other patients (who were community members) also recovered. It is so hard for some physicians to caste aside the paradigms of the past, and embrace the discoveries from the Genome. Our genomic science must look almost like gobbledygook to them I guess
Those Chronic Lyme patients who have joined the community here have done very well indeed. We can directly share knowledge and understanding about chronic disease which the average LLMD is decades away from acquiring
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Furch
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Posted: Sun Nov 23rd, 2008 01:41 |
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Guess its hard to see the necessity of understanding the underlying mechanisms, and perhaps hard to take time to read all the material.
I sent him an email with youre phone number((805)492-3693?), and asked him to call you himself. hope that was ok? I read a post where you stated that was encouraged when docs had questions.
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