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Alejandro
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Posted: Mon Nov 17th, 2008 19:40 |
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I have read the FAQ so far (I hope I did not miss any point).
However I could not find any hint what happens if I am already taking Benicar (10 mg/day) and would like to start MP. There are contraindications to ramp up the dose.
However If I start MP the dose will suddeny ramp up from 10 mg / day to 40 MG every 8 hours. I am already taking Benicar just due to high blood pressure, not for MP.
Any issue with that?
Thanks a lot,
Alex
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Skin Sarcoidosis treated with Corticoid creme, no MP yet. Thinking about starting MP soon. Low Vitamin D diet.
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Joyful
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Posted: Tue Nov 18th, 2008 08:23 |
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Hi Alex,
Other members have been on Benicar prior to starting the MP. I know that some (not already on Benicar) have had trouble when they tried 'ramping' instead of just starting at the recommended dosing. I don't recall any who had trouble 'jumping' from a low dose like yours to the full MP dose (but I only have a little over a year's experience here).
However, it might help to keep in mind that with Dr. Joyce Waterhouse's study of patients on the MP with Autoimmune diseases, she found the following initial responses to the 'Benicar only' phase of the treatment:
64 responses total
30% felt the same while on Benicar only
39% felt better while on Benicar only
31% felt worse while on Benicar only
The diversity in the respondents conditions makes it difficult to determine specific factors that might contribute to a specific person's experience when they begin taking the MP dosages of Benicar (40mg every 4-6 hours).
I hope this information is helpful to you. 
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Lyme?1980 Babs?05 Bart?05 CFS?06 | 125D50 Ph1Jul07 ModPh2Sep07 Ph2Feb08 Ph3Aug08 | 25D15 Oct08 | ABC of MP
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Alejandro
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Posted: Tue Nov 18th, 2008 19:11 |
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thanks for your feedback, I would be interested if someone under MP had already started with Benicar before due to blood high pressure.
Alex
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Skin Sarcoidosis treated with Corticoid creme, no MP yet. Thinking about starting MP soon. Low Vitamin D diet.
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Alejandro
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Posted: Sun Dec 14th, 2008 19:33 |
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Today I found the link
http://www.marshallprotocol.com/view_topic.php?id=238&forum_id=2&jump_to=108758#p108758
post from Aussie Barb on Oct 17th 2005
Lower levels --like the level recommended for Blood Pressure-- of Benicar can cause problems for those with Sarcoidosis. That's one of the first indicators that caught Dr. Marshall's attention in the first place for Valsartan, a similar but less effective angiotensen-II blocker. I had a very real-life event (your doctor can call me about) when I took lower than optimal for MP doses. Benicar PROTECTS Sarcoidosis patients at higher levels, not at BP dose levels. Trust me, your doctor doesn't want to have you find that fact out the hard way like I did.
Here is stated that lower dosis "can cause problems for those with Sarcoidosis", thats was exactly my question. What kind of problems do I need to expect if I just take benicar for lowering blood pressure (I started to do so before I knew anything about MP)
I do not have any symptom of Sarcoidosis anymore, just elevated 1,25D levels. However I can remember very well as I started to take 20 mg Benicar I had several side effects (probably Herx) that improved over time.
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Skin Sarcoidosis treated with Corticoid creme, no MP yet. Thinking about starting MP soon. Low Vitamin D diet.
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JoshR
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Posted: Sun Dec 14th, 2008 19:54 |
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I think you answered your own question.
Low doses of Benicar will activate the innate immune system, but will not give the protection from the resulting immunopathology that the full MP dose will give.
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5/6 CFS criteria, 125D36 Ph1Jul08 Ph2Sep08 25D8(Sep08) NoIRs covered up (except hands) low lux home minimal light exp r/t work
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Alejandro
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Posted: Sun Dec 14th, 2008 20:26 |
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| Well, not really. Its clear for me that MP does NOT work at lower dosis, the question was if it may be harmful at low dosis for people suffering on sarcoidosis. Reading the side effects of Benicar published by the manufacturer and following the readings in this forum, I would assume that it just produce some herx, nothing else.
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Skin Sarcoidosis treated with Corticoid creme, no MP yet. Thinking about starting MP soon. Low Vitamin D diet.
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JoshR
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Posted: Sun Dec 14th, 2008 23:27 |
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| Immunopathology is the same thing as herx. Low doses of Benicar cause herx. Higher doses protect from damage due to herx. Herx can be quite harmful if not properly controlled.
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5/6 CFS criteria, 125D36 Ph1Jul08 Ph2Sep08 25D8(Sep08) NoIRs covered up (except hands) low lux home minimal light exp r/t work
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Alejandro
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Posted: Fri Dec 19th, 2008 09:24 |
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I have started with the Low Vitamin D diet since one month ago (but have not started with the higher dosis Benicar)
Only symptom that I experienced is an increase of Blood Pressure (specially when the low dosis Benicar is not active anymore, after 7-8 hours). Increase of about 15-20 mg/HG
Could be that the decreased 25D levels in blood cause also higher blood pressure ?
I know that the solution is to start MP soon, but I would like to understand the behaviour. The relationship between low 25D and High BP was already observed and can be found in the web.
Thanks a lot
Alex
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Skin Sarcoidosis treated with Corticoid creme, no MP yet. Thinking about starting MP soon. Low Vitamin D diet.
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Knochen
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Posted: Fri Dec 19th, 2008 12:23 |
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I know that the solution is to start MP soon, but I would like to understand the behaviour. The relationship between low 25D and High BP was already observed and can be found in the web.
As the immunosuppressive effects of high D25 levels are decreased, the disease markers (such as high blood pressure) will increase. Very predictable.
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I can help you understand the recovery process, but only your physician is licensed to give you medical care.
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Alejandro
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Posted: Fri Dec 19th, 2008 17:17 |
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| Sounds logical, many thanks. Interesting to see "live" how good the model predict the results.
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Skin Sarcoidosis treated with Corticoid creme, no MP yet. Thinking about starting MP soon. Low Vitamin D diet.
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Alejandro
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Posted: Sat Dec 20th, 2008 07:22 |
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Additional Question: in healthly people the levels of 25D are higher. What I do not fully understand is how their immune system work with this levels. Being 25D immunosuppresive, this should cause the same effects as in individuals with decease, leading to a weaken response of innate immunity. What is here different?
Thanks a lot,
Alex
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Skin Sarcoidosis treated with Corticoid creme, no MP yet. Thinking about starting MP soon. Low Vitamin D diet.
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JoshR
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Posted: Sat Dec 20th, 2008 08:34 |
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The VDR is not only blocked by 25-D, but also by bacterial ligands such as capnine. This is why you can't recover by just reducing 25-D, you also need Benicar to displace the antagonists from the VDR and activate it, and antibiotics to slow down the bacterial metabolism.
A healthy person's 25-D seems to settle into the range 12-20 ng/ml when left to its own devices. The fact that people are encouraged to increase it far beyond this with supplements is probably one reason why so many are getting sick.
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5/6 CFS criteria, 125D36 Ph1Jul08 Ph2Sep08 25D8(Sep08) NoIRs covered up (except hands) low lux home minimal light exp r/t work
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Alejandro
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Posted: Sun Dec 28th, 2008 14:03 |
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Ok, I understand. Regarding low 25D values:
It is known that Sarcoidosis has good "Self Healing" chances, this could be a consequence of having low 25 D values that do not block the VDR anymore. Under the assumption, that the bacterial load is not so high, there should be a finite chance that the body starts fighting bacteria and finally eliminates them?
Otherwise how could "self healing" works? At the very end, it is the body alone recovering.
By higher bacterial loads (and higher concentrations of capnine), this can not work, as you stated.
Just an assumption..
Alex
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Skin Sarcoidosis treated with Corticoid creme, no MP yet. Thinking about starting MP soon. Low Vitamin D diet.
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edj2001
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Posted: Sun Dec 28th, 2008 22:08 |
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Hello Alex,
The idea of sarcoidosis being “self healing” is not correct. Take a look at the ACCESS study results.
http://autoimmunityresearch.org/sarcoidosis.pdf
The only cure is to eliminate the bacterial infection and a compromised immune system is not capable of doing so by itself. Low 25 D and high 1,25 D indicates a deregulated vitamin D nuclear receptor and dysfunctional immune system/
Gene
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