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etolbert4427
Member
| Joined: | Thu Apr 24th, 2008 |
| Location: | Forney, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 15 |
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Posted: Sun Oct 26th, 2008 04:04 |
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| I have combed the MP website and it seems to me that the Foods to avoid and foods and receipes that are acceptable could be put in a adobe document that would clearly list the guidelines that we should be following. On the MP site, in one location, it is recommended that we avoid chicken and ground beef. However, on the webpage for MP safe receipes, I find that chicken and ground beef are used in receipes. I wish that there was one adobe document which clearly specified what is safe and what isn't. Too, I wish that this document would have a list of MP safe receipes in it that everyone has contributed to and has been reviewed by staff to ensure it's ok. After all, phase 1 of the MP is in such a document for easy access.
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Julia
Advocate (on leave)
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Posted: Mon Oct 27th, 2008 15:54 |
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You're not the first to ask - now we need to find someone with the time to do it! We're all volunteers here, with busy lives to lead. Maybe you'd like to get the project started? 
it is recommended that we avoid chicken and ground beef
I would be interested to know where you found that, as it certainly doesn't fit with the rest of the info, as you say.
You might like to read the food discussions at the study members' informal site MP-Lifestyles.org - non-members can read most of it but not post.
____________________
Always consult a physician
Essential Info; FAQ; Julia's story
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
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Posted: Mon Oct 27th, 2008 17:01 |
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The problem with processed and feed-lot-produced meat in the USA is that the animals are fed with a diet which includes heavy Vitamin D supplementation. Some of this seems to remain in the meat.
Free-range meats (usually imported from Australia or New Zealand) are usually much easier to tolerate than those grown in a feed-lot.
That is why there is a conflict between the documents - if you can buy your meat from a market which sells free-range products, then it is far less likely to cause trouble.
There are recipes at the new Mp-Recipes site at URL:
http://mp-recipes.com/mp_recipes.html
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jcwat101
Health Professional
| Joined: | Wed Oct 17th, 2007 |
| Location: | California USA |
| Posts: | 44 |
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Posted: Sat Nov 8th, 2008 18:55 |
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There is nothing in the MP guidelines that says one needs to avoid meats or poultry, as Julia says.
On the subject of what sources of meat or poultry have the most vitamin D and what have the least vitamin D, I suspect it varies depending on various practices used by different companies in different locations. At one point I was extremely sensitive to vitamin D and could detect what had the most vitamin D in it, in a quite consistent way. At that time, I found that the beef I got from the chain health food store, Whole Foods, here in California, which they say was grazed on the range somewhere like Colorado, appeared to have more vitamin D than the beef from the local supermarket (Ralph's is the name of the store). And the organic or natural chicken from Whole Foods also had more vitamin D than the supermarket type. There was more vitamin D in the fat than in the lean meat itself, in all the types I tested.
But, the amounts of vitamin D appeared to be pretty small and I don't think they affected my 25-D levels even when I was eating a lot of organic chicken for quite a while (at that time I was getting it from a different health food store, Wild Oats). However, I was not getting much chicken fat, as I was consuming skinless boneless chicken breasts.
Unless one is having problems lowering their 25-D, I don't think it is something to worry about. If one is having problems, it is something one could consider, among the other possible sources of vitamin D in one's diet (e.g., one could try switching sources of meat or poultry or possibly consuming leaner cuts -- one might call up the supplier, even, to see if they inject vitamin D into the animal, or something).
Joyce Waterhouse
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20 years with CFS/FM/Lyme/IBS, mostly recovered from MCS and food sensitivities after 3 years on MP.
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
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Posted: Sat Nov 8th, 2008 19:04 |
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Let me be more precise about my earlier answer recommending Australian and New Zealand meats. I think one can be reasonably certain that lamb is "pasture grazed" in both these countries. Imported ANZ Lamb is what I have been buying (from Trader Joes) for several decades, and it has been excellent...
I am not sure whether beef is feed-lot grown in Australia yet
Here is the article (written eight years ago) about the process which improves beef tenderness by feeding very high levels of Vit D to the animal just prior to slaughter:
http://cowboyjournal.okstate.edu/cjfall00/00cjp20.html
Last edited on Sat Nov 8th, 2008 19:49 by Dr Trevor Marshall
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jcwat101
Health Professional
| Joined: | Wed Oct 17th, 2007 |
| Location: | California USA |
| Posts: | 44 |
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Posted: Sun Nov 9th, 2008 02:17 |
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That was an interesting article Trevor found about the adding of vitamin D to tenderize beef. I looked around a bit on the web and the newest thing I found so far was 2005 and it looks like it is still being being researched and has not been adopted yet, though I can't be certain.
I would think if it had been adopted, I would have found some more recent articles -- Improving the Tenderness of Beef.
I did find through searching, some studies saying it didn't work in pork.
Joyce Waterhouse
PS I just emailed one of the researchers on the above study to see if she knew if this practice was yet being used by the beef industry
Last edited on Sun Nov 9th, 2008 02:22 by jcwat101
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20 years with CFS/FM/Lyme/IBS, mostly recovered from MCS and food sensitivities after 3 years on MP.
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
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Posted: Sun Nov 9th, 2008 03:02 |
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Joyce,
If I was a rancher who had confirmed a bar-room rumor that increasing Vitamin D supplements in my cattle's feed made the meat more tender, I doubt I would contact the people who Patented the idea and let them know I was using their idea without a license
I am actually more interested in the composition of standard feed in feed-lots. (remembering that cattle are outdoors most of their lives)
Levels of 25-D in feed-lot cattle may be documented in some veterinary medicine studies, and they would give us an exact answer. Could you maybe afford the time to trawl through some of the veterinary articles? Please?
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dbkiser
Member
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Posted: Sun Nov 9th, 2008 03:35 |
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I tried to get into the recipes URL, and it does show the list of "recipes." However, when you click on the actual recipes, blank pages come up. The only one I was able to open was the "Foods to Avoid." Am I doing something wrong? I even typed it into the search line and had the same result.
Darlene
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ME/CFS/FM 9 yrs;IBS;OA;MCS;HBP;GERD;food sensitivities;Sleep Apnea;Lyme?(No/CDC, yes/Igenex);Insomnia;HHV-6 1:80; 45# wt gn; Ph1 9/27/08; D,25OH 10.3 NG/ML, D,1,25 44 pg/mL, Ph2 11/20/08; Non MP Rx's Cymbalta, Xyrem, Compounded Bi-est, Lasix, Metoprolol 5
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
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Posted: Sun Nov 9th, 2008 04:12 |
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Darlene,
What Browser software are you using, please? The recipes display OK here with FireFox and Internet Explorer, but maybe we have messed something up
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Knochen
Advocate
| Joined: | Wed Oct 17th, 2007 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 224 |
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Posted: Sun Nov 9th, 2008 12:49 |
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Are you going to this site?
http://www.mp-recipes.com/mp_recipes.html
There was an older site that has now been taken down, so please use the new one site from now on.
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I can help you understand the recovery process, but only your physician is licensed to give you medical care.
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Lind
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| Joined: | Sun Sep 21st, 2008 |
| Location: | Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 44 |
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Posted: Sun Nov 9th, 2008 15:59 |
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| I'm not certain I am posting on the right thread, but I found this website for searching nutritional content of various foods. Perhaps it would be a useful guideline. http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/
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Pre MP, Crohn's-like GI symptoms, Borreliosis, CFS,Fibromyalgia, MP diet, no UV protection 25D=54ng/ml. 1,25D= 31pg/ml.
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jcwat101
Health Professional
| Joined: | Wed Oct 17th, 2007 |
| Location: | California USA |
| Posts: | 44 |
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Posted: Sun Nov 9th, 2008 22:52 |
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Thanks very much Lind.
I am quite busy at the moment, but maybe one or more of you out there would be willing to volunteer to look into this issue more -- like Trevor mentioned -- about what amount, if any, they put into the feed and how widespread.
Joyful posted that the Weston A Price Foundation claims grass-fed beef has more vitamin D. I would also be interested if anyone wanted to see what their evidence is. I would also wonder if the organic and natural beef and chicken that Whole Foods uses has D added to their feed or something. They do sell vitamins and may think they should add it.
Joyce Waterhouse
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20 years with CFS/FM/Lyme/IBS, mostly recovered from MCS and food sensitivities after 3 years on MP.
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Lind
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| Joined: | Sun Sep 21st, 2008 |
| Location: | Virginia USA |
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Posted: Sun Nov 9th, 2008 23:50 |
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| I did some internet research on the nutritional value of grass fed beef. This website has some interesting information. There is a lot of reading here and you have to scroll down to get to the nutritional information. I couldn't find anything on vitamin D content. Grass fed animals seem to have a higher Omega 3 fatty acid, Vit A, and Vit E content. http://www.eatwild.com/healthbenefits.htm
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Pre MP, Crohn's-like GI symptoms, Borreliosis, CFS,Fibromyalgia, MP diet, no UV protection 25D=54ng/ml. 1,25D= 31pg/ml.
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Lind
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| Joined: | Sun Sep 21st, 2008 |
| Location: | Virginia USA |
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Posted: Mon Nov 10th, 2008 00:12 |
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More research on vit. D in grass fed beef turned up the following website. Even if Vit D is higher in grass fed beef (which I haven't been able to document) this article provides more reason to avoid feed lot cattle. http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/7207289/description.html
Cattle in feed lots are forced to gain weight on high starch diets which are suddenly introduced. The result is ulcers in the rumen, leading to bacteria in the bloodstream, followed by abscesses in the liver. To treat this they are given antibiotics. I would think the antibiotics are present in the finished meat. Not a good thing for those eating the meat.
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Pre MP, Crohn's-like GI symptoms, Borreliosis, CFS,Fibromyalgia, MP diet, no UV protection 25D=54ng/ml. 1,25D= 31pg/ml.
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mindy
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| Joined: | Thu Sep 18th, 2008 |
| Location: | Ottawa, Kansas USA |
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Posted: Mon Nov 10th, 2008 04:36 |
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I don't know if this website would be any good but it's in regards to vit d in grass fed animals. If this website isn't allowed please delete...
http://www.texasgrassfedbeef.com/id68.htm
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Here to help my husband who has been dx with Lung Sarc 12/06, avoiding Vit D since 9/08, wearing NoIR's, started Benicar 10/08/08, weaned off Prednisone 11/9/08 & started Mino 12/01/08. So far so good! Thankful for Dr. Marshall & his team!
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Cynthia Schnitz
Member
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Posted: Mon Nov 10th, 2008 23:46 |
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For us in the US, there are plenty of grass feed beef sources. I went thru all the western US companies/farms, and settled on this one: http://www.bar10beef.com/
I just put in my latest order, and asked about the possibility of their giving the animals supplements of any kind, and there was an firm 'no'. I have ordered a number of times from this company, and the meat is really surprisingly moist and relatively tender, not at all what you expect from frozen meat. I get mine by ground shipment which arrives in about 2 days, and so have very low shipping costs. Might be quite a bit more for those not so close.
Cynthia
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Phase1 10-27-08, Phase2 12-16-08, 125D:47, 25D:43;29;tbd, TriEst 1.25mgX2pd, Ca&Mg(as rqd), Calcium anomaly-gone in 3 wks of MP, Spondylitis, early Macular degeneration, early diverticulosis, Type II diabetes (unconfirmed), returning sense of smell
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